I’ve had lots of comments on my thread here about United First Financial and Dave Ramsey. Dave is an absolute expert on credit issues, and he hates UFF. He says it’s a complete waste of money. (Of course, I agree.)
As usual, he’s accused of not knowing what he’s talking about because he hasn’t been to one of the UFF cult meetings. The fact is that he’s very savvy about this.
You waste $3,500 for a piece of software that claims to have magical powers in getting your mortgage paid off early. The truth is that any consumer can pay off their mortgage for free (assuming their mortgage allows pre-payment) and all they have to do is spend less than they make, and put their extra money toward their mortgage. You can save $20,000 on your mortgage, and I show you how here (and for free!).
A woman called into Dave Ramsey’s show to tell him how wrong he is about UFF. It’s so agonizing to listen to this woman spouting marketing scripts for the program, and sounding completely uneducated about mortgages. (Transcript below.) And she’s a UFF agent! She’s supposed to know what she’s talking about, but instead she proves my point that most of these agents are clueless. And she doesn’t even know that the company has a multi-level marketing structure!
Take a listen to this call at Dave Ramsey’s site.
He predicts the company will be out of business in two years, and all those people who paid $3,500 will be out of luck. (That’s because you don’t actually GET any software for your money. You just get access to the software on their servers.) I happen to think Dave is right. A lot of MLMs can carry on their schemes for years. But I don’t think this one will survive long.
UFF has such a huge one-time investment that I think many consumers will do research before buying. I can only hope this is the case, although someone I used to respect as an expert on credit matters supposedly did 2 weeks worth of research on UFF and thinks it’s fabulous. Duh! So anyone can be fooled by UFF.
However, if enough consumers take the time to fully research this and don’t fall for the marketing scripts and fluff pieces out there about United First Financial, I think the company will go away in two years or less. Selling consumers a one-time, $3,500 item, is going to be a difficult to do in the long run, especially with people like Dave Ramsey (and me!) helping to educate consumers and preventing them from wasting their money!
Dave: “51 minutes after the hour, Rhonda is in Moblie. Hey Rhonda, what’s up?”
Rhonda: [chuckles]
Dave: “Rhonda, how are you?”
Rhonda: “I’m fine how are you?”
Dave: “Good, how can I help?”
Rhonda: “Um, I’m just a bit curious here. Um, I know that you teach, um, the principal of paying off your mortgage and being debt free..”
Dave: “I do.”
Rhonda: “..and that’s what everybody needs to be.”
Dave: “Mm heh”
Rhonda: “Um, but I’ve also heard you blast the United First Financial program and I just am wondering ..”
Dave: “I just finished blasting them”
Rhonda: “I know.. I heard you and I think you’re incorrect sir. And I just want to know, has anybody ever shown you how this works? Because it is not a ‘magical’ software, it is mathematical..”
Dave: “It’s useless.”
Rhonda: “..not magical.”
Rhonda: “And it is helping homeowners, in this country, save their homes from going into foreclosure..”
Dave: “No it’s not.”
Rhonda: “Yes it is.”
Dave: “Oh, that’s bull.”
Rhonda: “Well, okay. Is Earnst & Young reputable to you?”
Dave: “Baby doll..Earnst & Young hasn’t got anything to do with this.”
Rhonda: “Earnst & Young has named the company Entrepreneur of the Year”
Dave: “Basically, software does not keep people’s homes out of foreclosure.”
Dave: “Listen .. listen .. I know you’re caught in the multilevel cult thing..”
Rhonda: “It is not multilevel..”
Dave: “Yes it is!”
Rhonda: “You don’t know what you’re talking about!”
Dave: “Absolutely I do!”
Rhonda: “You do not know what you’re talking about.”
Dave: “Lady, you got .. do you not recruit people to go into your business?”
Rhonda: “Absolutely not!”
Dave: “You don’t recruit a soul to go into your business?”
Rhonda: “No. I do not recruit anyone. I show .. a software product ..”
Dave: “You’re business does..United First Financial recruits people .. they recruit .. they have hierarchies.”
Rhonda: “No they don’t Dave. You don’t know, that’s why I’m asking you, I challenge you..”
Dave: “I challenge you. I’ve been all through your website. It’s exactly what you say you do.”
Rhonda: “No, it helps people ..”
Dave: “No, no, no .. you recruit people ..”
Rhonda: “No, I do not recruit anybody .. all I do .. is share this with people .. and, then whenever they get on the program ..”
Dave: “.. to sell. Well, maybe you didn’t, but the business model is.”
Rhonda: “.. and see how much, how fast that they’re paying off their mortgage ..”
Dave: “It’s not paying off their mortgage, they are.”
Rhonda: “Of course they are. I mean ..”
Dave: “Do you know how they’re doing it?”
Rhonda: “.. the program doesn’t do anything except analyze ..”
Dave: “.. cause them to manage their money”
Rhonda: “.. your set of numbers, because everybody’s numbers are different. It simply calculates, because our brains cannot do that fast enough ..”
Dave: “Oh, we can’t use our brains..”
Rhonda: “.. and it tells you when is the most opportune time to utilize your money, not the bank’s money, but your money .. that equity is the homeowner’s money ..”
Dave: “Wait a minute .. stop a second ..”
Rhonda: “.. and if they’ve got equity in their home ..”
Dave: “.. stop a second ..”
Rhonda: “.. why can’t they use it whenever a, uh, state of the art ..”
Dave: “State of the art?”
Rhonda: “.. state of the art, computer program says, “Okay, Mr Ramsey, if you transfer this amount of money right now, straight to principal, you’re gonna save 7.6 years ..””
Dave: “Did you know that’s a lie?”
Rhonda: “I don’t think you can do that in your head ..”
Dave: “Did you know that that’s a lie?”
Rhonda: “No it is not.”
Dave: “Yes it is darling. The way a Fannie Mae mortgage works ..”
Rhonda: “Are you calling me a liar?”
Dave: “Yes I am.”
Rhonda: “Well, then you’re a liar .. you’re telling Americans ..”
Dave: “I’m just saying that a Fannie Mae mortgage, and FHA mortgage and a VA mortgage ..”
Rhonda: “.. that this is a rip-off ..”
Dave: “If you’ll listen a second lady, a Fannie Mae mortgage and a VA mortgage does not apply anything instantaneously based on .. based on a piece of computer software. The way you save on interest is once a month. They will not apply principal more than once a month. And there’s not a magical date that’s instantaneous ..”
Rhonda: “I know .. that’s why this program was invented.”
Dave: “That’s a lie.”
Rhonda: “No it’s not.”
Dave: “That’s a lie. That’s the way the mortgages work.”
Rhonda: [inaudible]
Dave: “I’ve been in the business for thirty years lady ..”
Rhonda: “Well, I’ve been a realtor for about twelve ..”
Dave: “.. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. You’ve joined a multilevel, you believed everything they told you.”
Rhonda: “And I just know people get into debt. I think that you’re objection to it is that..”
Dave: “$3500 wasted ..”
Rhonda: “.. you’re not making money off of it.”
Dave: “.. is my objection to it. It’s $3500 wasted.”
Rhonda: “No it’s not.”
Dave: “You don’t get anything for the $3500.”
Rhonda: “It is a personalized computer program ..”
Dave: “Whoopee “
Rhonda: “.. that will get you out of debt.”
Dave: “No it won’t ..”
Rhonda: “Yes it does .. it works!”
Dave: “You get you out of debt by living on less than you make.”
Rhonda: “No sir, it’s not about how much you make.”
Dave: “Yes it is.”
Rhonda: “It’s the fact that I don’t really think you understand how it works.”
Dave: “I absolutely understand how it works. I’ve been through the whole thing in detail.”
Rhonda: “You couldn’t and then get on the air and tell Americans, “oh that’s a rip-off””
Dave: “[chuckles] It is a total scam.”
Rhonda: “This company is .. is .. it’s only been around two years.”
Dave: “It’s a total scam.”
Rhonda: “No it is not.”
Dave: “It’ll be gone in two more years.”
Rhonda: “And for all of the American listeners go to u1st.com and .. I had hoped that I would get somewhere with you, because I’ve listened to you for several years, and I like you, okay? But, I do wonder, has anybody ever really shown you how this works?”
Dave: “Well, no, I haven’t attended your multilevel meeting I can promise you that ..”
Rhonda: “We don’t have multilevel meetings.”
Dave: “.. but we’ve been through every piece of the detail that you’re company will put out. Listen, the simple fact is this, when you buy $3500 worth of software, you still have to live on less than you make in order to apply principal, is that correct?”
Rhonda: “That would be correct in any situation of course.”
Dave: “Okay, so .. why does the software help?”
Rhonda: “Because you get to be your bank. You get to use your money, and you get to stop paying all the interest .. when you buy .. when you get a mortgage you know that the first year on a thirty-year traditional $100,000 mortgage, you’re paying 580% interest. They’re not paying 6%.”
Dave: “That is not true.”
Rhonda: “It is true.”
Dave: “You do not pay 580% the first year.”
Rhonda: “I’ve learned this from my real estate business.”
Dave: “You don’t know how to do math lady.”
Rhonda: “Oh .. okay, okay ..”
Dave: “It’s a simple amortization schedule. Now, an amortization schedule is based on simple interest. Anybody that’s got a finance degree can understand this.”
Rhonda: “This is .. no ..”
Dave: “You don’t even have to have a finance degree to understand it.”
Rhonda: “I have been a realtor with Remax for 10 years okay, and I know what I’m talking about.”
Dave: “No you don’t. I hope to God nobody buys a house from you if you think that 580% interest is what somebody gets charged in the first thirty years.”
Rhonda: “In the first year of the mortgage ..”
Dave: “In the first year of the mortgage the interest rate is five .. the effective yield is 580%?”
Rhonda: “They don’t pay anything towards principal, what $5 a payment goes to to principal?”
Dave: “Do you know why?”
Rhonda: “This is about canceling the interest ..”
Dave: “Do you not know how an amortization schedule works and you’ve been a realtor for eight years?”
Rhonda: “I do know how an amortization schedule works, yes ..”
Dave: “How does it work?”
Rhonda: “It shows you how much interest you’re paying out ..”
Dave: “It shows you how much .. and how much”
Rhonda: “.. and when it ..”
Dave: “And how much of the interest, in the first payment of 360 payments on a thirty year .. how is the interest calculated in the first payment?”
Rhonda: “It is compounded interest ..”
Dave: “No, it is not compounded ..”
Rhonda: ” Yes it is.”
Dave: “It is calculated in amortization schedule on a simple interest basis, that’s how an amortization schedule is developed. You take the .. you take the”
Rhonda: “I’m not .. I just wanted to know ..”
Dave: “.. let me tell you how it works. Let me explain to you how it works.”
Rhonda: “.. if you really knew what u1st was ..”
Dave: “Listen, you need to go back and do the math, ’cause here’s how it works ..”
Rhonda: “No .. I would like for you to ..”
Dave: “You take the interest rate and divide it by twelve .. do what?”
Rhonda: “I would like for you to look at the program again.”
Dave: “I don’t need to look at it again. It’s a total scam.”
Rhonda: “Okay ..”
Dave: “It’s a waste of $3500 of the consumers good money.”
Rhonda: “No, it’s the best $3500 ever spent. If you save $80,000 ..”
Dave: “You save $80,000 ..”
Rhonda: “.. by saving interest ..”
Dave: “.. by getting out of debt early. Lady, you are thick. You are truly thick. You need to get out of the multilevel cult and use your brain again. When you tell people 580% interest in the first year, it really shows your ignorance. It’s really sad. That puts this hour of The Dave Ramsey Show in the books.”
$3,500? If they think this computer program is going to magically save them $20,000 then they need to brush up their high school math skills. Why can’t they spend 30 minutes and sit down and do the math themselves? It isn’t rocket science.
I have a quick way.
Assuming a 30 year mortgage at 6%
Take the $3,500 you were going to pay to the scammers and put it against your mortgage balance.
At the end of 30 years, you would have saved $21,000. This is with absolutely no risk – unlike sending your money to the scammers.
Oh no, Chad. I’ve been told that my estimate of saving $20k in interest on a mortgage by putting $3,500 on it today is wrong! Apparently, UFF agents use a special, secret kind of math that you and I are not privy to!
Tracy,
I have offered to come to Chicago at my expense to explain this program to you and you said you did not have time. But you have time for writting this stuff.
Now Ernst and Young have awarded United First Financial their coveted Entrepreneur of the Year Award.
Beating out 9 other “REAL” Businesses. What do they know that you don’t?
Don – What’s so confusing about the fact that I’m not interested in wasting even one minute of my time on your sales pitch. I fully understand what you’re selling. I understand that UFF uses a misleading marketing presentation. I realize that your company sells a product that is not worth the $3,500 they charge. End of story. I’m not interested in wasting my time with you.
On the other hand, I am more than happy to spend my time educating consumers about your worthless product. If I can save even one consumer their $3,500, it’s worth it!
As for awards… There are plenty of bad companies that get awards. I understand that UFF wants us to think this award means they’re credible. It doesn’t. It just means that the company has a great plan for swindling consumers out of $3,500 each, and it will make the owners rich. If E&Y wants to award that type of behavior, that’s their prerogative.
Ernst & Young have more more years of being credible than you care to mention… when they indorse a company it is their reputation that is on the line not UFF. They have a lot more to loose than you do. Besides we really don’t know who you are, now do we?
Do you really expect that the readers of this blog ****blather, blather, blather… promotional links not allowed… ****
The E&Y award was a Utah regional award. Not the national award. It is an entrepreneur award, and UFF has a great plan to make money with a cheap sales force of independent contractors who make the more ridiculous claims and act as human legal shields for the parent company. From a money making perspective, it’s brilliant.
I don’t think E&Y care if the product is worthwhile. I’m still waiting to hear back from E&Y if they approve of the MLM structure of UFirst. I doubt the E&Y head office would be pleased about this award. It does more to lower the standing of E&Y than it does to raise the profile of UFF.
Interesting point by Craig. I believe the HQ for UFirst is in Utah. And hopefully we all know how closely tied they all are in Utah. “I pat your back, you pat mine.” is a phrase that comes to mind.
I had a friend introduce me on this product a few months ago. Amazingly a lot of my close friends who have some money to spare bought into this. Luckily I didn’t bite. The word / feel I am getting is that you have to be religious about putting in all your daily financials in order to make it even work correctly. Who has that kind of time?
Ok, Like Dave Ramsey does not have something to loose with this program, He has build a network of Financial Planners and CPAs to sign up to market his programs. Instead of Dave Ramsey saying they offer a good service and explaining why his is better he wants to knock us just as you do, so are you a rep for him? Are you part of his Organization. UFirst is a threat to his organization, there are many of his networked groups that have converted to Ufirst.
I beleive we all have good programs, Their is enough room for us all out there, no need to bash but those who do bash always look why! I beleive anything to assit the client get out of debt is better than a client in debt. If he was true help to people he would applaud what we do and not knock us. We do help people get out debt and out of there mortgages!
Also, There are people who buy Weight Management programs, join gyms, Do you think Weight Watchers, Golds Gym and What about the exercise videos out there! Do you think all of the them are scams, as people could do those on there own also yet they elect guidance, help and support. Ufirst is not just about the Software, it is about the support open from 8am to 12pm est time! Provides coaching above and beyond the software coaching.
Next if you really look at Ufirst it is not a true pyramid program! Let me ask you a question does teh Insurance Industry have national, regional, branches and agents, do you not think that ever policy written people get a cut off it? The more business you write the bigger the commission. Ufirst does not reward you for recruiting, it rewards you for the Business your group writes just as the Insurance, mortgage, financial services do! You work your way up and if you don’t a top producer will pass you and you make no money off his group. It is about production, it is your choice to build a branch office or not. It is your choice to just sale the product. There is no payment for recruiting you are only awarding for sales production and you can qualify by not adding any one to your team!
Do not hate, be glad people are getting out of debt! The program works, if you do not beleive in the philosphy that your choice, but let me tell you it works, it keeps improving and you know why, Because Top Financial Planners, CPAs and Mortgage and Realtors all have given suggestions all from Top Industry experts. Just wait to see some of the future press releases from other top Financial experts who do not have a network of people across the country that he is losing to Ufirst like Dave Ramsey and I am assuming you.
Good luck and just remember if the customer is happy and the program is working for 10’s of thousands why be a hater, applaud that there are people out there making a difference in an economy were to many people depend on the government to take care of them instead of taking responsibility themselves. We are just showing people there is a different way to control your INterest and getting out of debt
The only intelligent person I see here is Tony. You see people; your ignorance to UFF has blinded and construed your thought process. First of all, you complain and moan over 3500, but you have no problem paying the bank back over double what you borrowed. Wow! Didn’t see that coming did you? You borrow 200000 and pay back 431000, assuming a 6% interest at 30 years and you don’t refinance every 5 years. In most cases, most homeowners will refinance every 3-5 years and put themselves back into a 30 year loan. How does that benefit them? And the banks realize that!! That is why you pay all the interest up front and eventually turn around at year 21. Hence the term front end loaded loan. They know you are going to either sell and start a new 30 year mortgage or refinance. Do the math pretties. Or insurance companies! Many of you who paid thousands for homeowners insurance only to have the company say oops sorry that a hurricane wiped out your house but we are just going to have to let you go. Um thanks for all the premiums you paid though! Now that is what I call a scam and it is literally taking advantage of the consumer and creating a huge problem in this country. If you want to complain about scams, start your complaining to these institutions who take advantage of us with these ridiculous loans they provide and policies that have a dead end. Even if you pay extra on a mortgage, which 90% of us can’t, you will still lose a considerable amount of hard earned money to the lender. YOUR MONEY!! And if you refinance, where is your savings then. Secondly, you’re using the banks money to leverage time and money against your mortgage. You are using simple interest to cancel out compounded interest. It is a great concept and any successful, wealthy business entrepreneur will tell you the key to wealth is using other people’s money. If I can exchange 3500 of the banks money to save 100000 of my money and not change my existing lifestyle, I would do it in a heart beat. Fortunately I don’t have a mortgage! Yet, instead of wasting time bashing people and companies who truly want to see the American economy regain it’s true spirit again, find something useful to do to help rather than be a bunch of experts with no formidable argument. Ramsey, quit wasting air and space. And your sidekick who wrote the article above is just a want to be. There always seems to be a few thorns in the side. Get a grip you guys. Most of you that are skeptics are probably tied with the financial industry somehow and fear losing business when in fact you have the opportunity to help people free themselves from financial bondage only to have more money to spend on other products you offer. Well, would you rather wait 20-30 years for that person to have money to invest; or, would it make sense to offer them a product to get out of debt in 10-12 years and have a relationship that will financially continue for years to come. UFF is here to stay. They are planning on expanding globally from what I here and are doing extremely well in Canada right now. Those poor Nooks have a standard 40 and 50 year mortgage. Now that is a scam. Wake up people. I am a UFF agent with honesty and integrity and I get great pleasure knowing that I have helped someone save over 300000 in interest and they went from 27 years to 9 years. They see the value and as a loan officer, who crunches numbers all the time, tried to pick apart our program and finally come to her senses and realized that she could not beat it doing it on her own. She realized that her rate of return doing it with UFF was well over 30%. Can you do that Mr. Spreadsheet? Bet you can’t!! People are coming to me for help and I never PUSH this on anyone. Most of the clients I deal with are Loan Officers, RE Agent, and smart business owners who understand simple banking principles. The ones who don’t get it just don’t get it and are usually naive to how money works.
I’ll leave you with this….
“What is good for one is not necessarily good for another; but to misconstrue truth and reality can cause unnecessary and consequential withdrawal to those who need an alternative.”
Oh goodness, Lance. You are exactly the reason why people need to run far, far away from UFF. They let idiots like this be agents!!!
Let me clue you in a little on how the plan works. It worked based upon prepayment of principal on your mortgage. Yet you said: “Even if you pay extra on a mortgage, which 90% of us can’t…”
Well if you can’t pay extra on the mortgage,you can’t use UFF!!!
You also said: “If I can exchange 3500 of the banks money to save 100000 of my money and not change my existing lifestyle, I would do it in a heart beat.”
The only way most people can pay extra toward their mortgage (as UFF requires to be successful) is by altering their lifestyle. Whoever told you that you didn’t have to change the way you spend money LIED TO YOU. Of course you have to change how you spend your money, spending less on frivolous items and using that extra cash toward the mortgage.
The problem here is that WE DO GET IT. We know (and obviously you don’t) that you could save just as much in interest (and probably more) by using a free prepayment plan without this silly software.
What I find so remarkable is that the difference between MMA and a simple prepayment plan is the use of a HELOC loan. Well, even the UFF site offers numbers that show that the gain from HELOC use is zero to minimal. Yet, they claim ‘sophisticated algorithms’ that cannot be duplicated or comprehended. Really? That $3500 is best spent thrown right at one’s principal. At the end of each month, just pay extra to the mortgage, if this is what you wish to do. All the MMA do is spout hyperbole and offer statistics and anecdotes of one kind or another. “Did you know that 98.6 % of people die with a balance on their mortgage?” Really? So what? How about the fact that my mortgage cost me 3.2% after taxes, and my states muni bonds yield 4% right now? Or the fact that my employer matches my 401(k) deposits dollar for dollar? These are reasons why there are things to do with your money before choosing to pay off the mortgage.
Joe
Here is something I just found out 3 months ago. The best way to pay
your mortgage off sooner is simple. Almost all mortgage companies
offer bi-weekly payment programs. They don’t tell you because they loose
alot of money but….. if you request it, they have to give it. I’m doing it and
I’m knocking 7 yrs. and 70 thousand dollars off my mortgage. My company
freely offers it but most you have to call and ask. If they say no double check
call them back and tell them you want it and that you are aware of the fact that they do have it.
Since the software really does not have magical properties, the $3500 price tag is exorbitant. Financial calculations involve addition, multiplication, and an occasional formula for calculating interest which involves more addition and multiplication. There is no advanced calculus or geometry or astrology involved, therefore a spreadsheet can do exactly what this software does – right down to the penny.
Unfortunately, you can’t sell a spreadsheet template for $3,500 and you can’t stop people from reselling it, sharing it and giving it away, so hosting the software online is ideal. For the company, that is. I have nothing against people selling superior and useful products to make money, hey, I love capitalism, but this company is legally set up to charge the highest possible price for a software that is no better than simply training yourself to manage the HELOC on your own.
I should sell an Excel template on late night TV for $19.99 and probably be as rich as Dave Ramsey! Summing up, the technique does not use rocket science and may or may not be financially sound, (it’s big in Europe) but this company is set up to fleece you and does not have your best interests at heart.
Thumbs down, get the book at the local library or wait for the movie!
I’ve heard alot of talk…but not alot from the naysayers that have really truly tried the product. I have not tried it. And I am not a Rep. But I am looking into it. The real hipe is the price…nothing more. If it does what it says does the cost of $3500.00 won’t matter in the long run. That ‘s what I will pay my accountant this year. I own 2 successful businesses…and I know it takes money to make money…and sometimes it takes a loss to save. I don’t need folks telling others with “expletives” what they think of it. Their the ones who really look stupid. And I’ve been listening.
Well Dave, the sad thing is that it won’t really cost you $3,500. It will cost you about $20,000. Take your $3,500 and put it directly on your mortgage. Here are the details:
http://www.sequence-inc.com/fraudfiles/2008/05/16/fun-with-numbers-i-can-save-you-19714-without-united-first-financial/
UPDATE: E&Y does NOT endorse UFF!! E&Y ethics division stated through email that although they sponsor the award, they have no decision in the judging or selection of the winner.
Sounds like they want nothing to do with this SCAM!
I will gladly agree that the software works as advertised and I will further agree that the price being charged is small, only when compared to the exorbitant interest rates charged by banks. That does not mean you are getting value for your money and where does that road lead?
I’m the kind of guy who does his own disk brake jobs because replacing the four pads ($7) and machining your rotors ($10) makes more financial sense to me than paying $100 or $200 for an expert to jack up your car and remove 4 bolts! It’s like changing a light bulb, once you are educated in HOW it’s done, safely and correctly. I don’t do oil changes because the shop is more efficient at getting rid of the used oil, and the specials abound.
If you can learn to do it yourself, assuming you own a calculator and not a slide rule, you will be miles ahead. Even $500 is TOO MUCH for a calculation done ONCE a month!
C’mon, America, do it yourself.
Read the literature on this technique, do your own calculations
Chris –
One doesn’t even need the $29 TI calculator. One can just take their extra money and pay it toward extra principal each month.
If they really want to see some sophisticated algorithms in action, there are spreadsheets they can download. It’s not rocket science to see that $1000 paid at the beginning of a $200K mortgage at 6% will save $4934 in interest at the back end. MMA can do that math for you, or you can get it for free. Either way, it’s your $1000 that saves you that interest, nothing else.
Joe
I have looked into this “opportunity” myself because people I know and respect are excited about it. As a 15 year veteran of the mortgage industry, I have seen plenty of “magic bullets” when it comes to paying off one’s mortgage and, unfortunately, this appears to be a more complex version of an old idea.
I have seen a lot of bickering back and forth about MMA vs. a simple pre-pay approach. Some of the “naysayers” claim they have run the numbers and estimate perhaps a $5-$10/mo advantage to MMA, others claim it is actually worse. I haven’t run the numbers myself, but I have not seen any MMA’ers effectively challenge these assumptions. Before you jump all over me, “you are just ignorant, you just don’t understand it” isn’t a response. If I don’t understand it, explain it to me! Perhaps that chapter of the UFF playbook hasn’t been written, yet.
The sad thing is that some of the people I know who have “drank the KoolAid” are convinced that this system is going to save them from inevitable financial ruin. One of them actually told me that she was on the verge of filing bankruptcy, but thanks to MMA, she will be debt free in less than 10 years, with only $26 in discretionary income. She has quit her job to sell UFF full time! That’s a tragedy!
I believe that many of you do believe that you are saving the world with this program. Just like my friend, I think this product often appeals to the desperate, looking for any way out of a bad situation, as well as those who recognize the opportunity to make a quick buck.
Whether you accept it or not, if you are selling this as anything other than a “financial dashboard” to motivate people to do what they aren’t disciplined to do on their own, then you are misleading people!
Based on what I’ve seen and heard, this is my take on UFF. If I’m wrong, prove it and I will admit that I was wrong.
Not a Rep or Ufirster.
I was curious on a couple of things. Why are people against the concept of agents of U1st making money and those above them as well? Is that not how Mortgage Brokers, Insurance salesman and commission based business are run? Don’t insurance agents get residuals? Heck banks have contests with tellers to up sell the clienst. Also, why are Mortgage Brokers acting like they are so professional and above this when they get 1-2% fees for mortgage loans, overides for interest rates above the interest quote (so people can get cash out for instance) and wine and dine real estate agenst to bring them deals. Mortgage Brokers talk about how professional they are, but I am old enough to remember whenj mortage brokers came into existenace in the mid 80’s and the public thought they were a scam.
Just thoughts.
Richard,
I find it humerus that you need to state that you are not a rep or “Ufirster”.
The financially astute people that you find on several boards/blogs are against U1st agents making money because it is a scam, simple as that.
Mortgage brokers, insurance salesmen, realtor’s, etc. serve a purpose. UFF software is proven to cost the user more money then they could simply do themselves, using less time and effort.
U1st agents misrepresent how mortgages work, they confuse people and make it seem difficult to pay off a mortgage yourself without a software product. They represent huge savings by using a HELOC account, but in all cases the savings does not even cover the users software cost.
In a pyramid scheme, the majority of the income made by “agents” is from recruiting others. When you shop for insurance do you hear a “pitch” from agents to make “thousands in extra income per month”? Insurance agents do receive residuals, but they don’t try to recruit you to become insurance salesman.
Also, unlike most U1st agents, insurance agents are educated in their field, they take a state exam and have to continue education to keep their license. Its stated on their own website that U1st does not provide financial information and is not licensed to do so. Most U1st agents do not know how mortgages work, this is evidence on many of these forums. When asked to compare simple pre-payment and the UFF software many agents do not know how to analyze simply mortgage calculations.
I have some issues with some mortgage brokers as well but that is not on topic. Some are bad, some are good, but at least they serve a purpose.
The UFF product was designed to separate $3500 from people who don’t understand mortgages and debt. If the product truly performed as it’s hyped by agents and the UFF website, there would not be a need for a sales force of 10,000 people. The product would sell itself. Software belongs in retail stores.
Newsflash, many people still do believe mortgage brokers are scam artists, please stay on topic.
Sorry I upset you by saying I was not a U1st agent. This is no lie. Based upon what I read above it sounded like everyone had to “qualify” their position. I find it odd that sometimes the attacks seem personal.
Anyhow, I was just trying to find out the opinions on compensation as it apprears to be a rub for a lot of people. I thought the topic was mortgage accelorator programs. Did not mean to offend you.
Last question. Does anyone have a link to site that has side by side analysis of the ufirst software versus someone doing it one there own? Possibly an Excel Spreadsheet put togther already?
Being the lazy type and not wanting to spend any money, it sounded like some here have a program in place to use for free.
Thanks
I don’t think many people have problems with the UFF “agents” making money, except for the fact that they’re making it by selling something stupid for an outrageous price. They’re telling some of the least financially savvy people that this is the answer to their prayers, which is a complete lie. So the problem here is that the “agents” are making money based on lies.
Richard,
The topic is mortgage acceleratory programs, but I think the point others are trying to make is that many UFF’ers are screwing people over for the commission. And while this may be true for some, I actually believe a larger number of UFF’ers are those that are desperately seeking that “magic bullet” and WANT to believe this is it. The reason they get so defensive on these boards is because they don’t want to hear that they may have to keep looking.
As I mentioned earlier, I have a friend that is fully committed to UFF and I have no doubt that she thinks she is doing people an incredible service. I think the genuine deceit comes from the top. Many of the agents are only sharing what they’ve been told, despite the fact that they don’t really understand it themselves.
Unfortunately, in most cases, the only thing that qualifies them to discuss and explain the intricate details of your mortgage and complicated financial situation is that they had $175 (to become a UFF agent) and a dream (to get rich or save the world or whatever)!
In my opinion, much of what you will find on these boards from UFF Agents is a passionate and a genuine refelection of what they believe, but uninformed, inconsistent and in some cases, just wrong.
Unfortunately, believing one’s own lies doesn’t make them NOT lies.
TO RICHARD – I have what I believe is a well crafted spreadsheet in which you can change the Loan amount, interest rate, and monthly prepayments. By setting these variable to $200,000, 6%, and $1000/mo prepay, you can compare it to the ckassic MMA example. The sheet is available for free, upon request, I have nothing to sell, and don’t keep the email address of the requestor beyond the first week. Depending how bust I am, I’ve asked “what do you think” when the requestor was seriously looking to buy the UFF product, and sees that prepayments pretty much duplicates the system, sophisticated algorithyms notwithstanding.
Joe
Richard you did not upset me, its upsetting that many agents “pretend” not to be agents or shills, and then we find out later that they do sell the UFF product and their original and only purpose was to promote this scam.
Thank you for the feedback and information on spread sheets.
I know that I will probaly get yelled at again but I quess I will ask these questions anyhow.
Is the consensus that the mortage acceralator program work, it is just that the cost is to high for what you get?
And this is really going to sound naive, but from looking at the links, is Dave Ramsey profiting by selling programs and information that is available to all with a little on-line research? Not sure how he broke through as an expert on finance or wheather he is a “talking head”.
Sorry I know that is off topic.
Does prepaying principal on one’s mortgage pay it off early? Of course it does. The cost should be zero, give or take $20. Spreadsheets, $0, a number of books out there that go into different plans, are not bad. I am pondering an article on this topic, but it goes something like this: You can simply pay any extra month end money, and use a sheet to track your balance. Each extra payment of principal will knock off some or all of a payment at the end. Or, you can choose an exact amount to add each month, calculate the new time remaining, and the heck with any paper. You just cut a 30 year mortgage to 20, or 15 by knowing how to just increase your payment a precise amount. Last, I think about the person who starts with no prepayments, but each year takes their raise, 1/3 to 401(k), 1/3 to the mortgage, 1/3 to finer living. This method is variable, but years of raises help to increase your prepayments and pull in the mortgage final payment date. These ideas are not rocket science, more common sense for those of us who understand mortgages and time value of money.
Dave Ramsey – most financial advice can be gotten by reading library books and frequenting the right web sites. Yes, he makes money off his ideas. I’d not dis him here, I do feel he appeals to a select group, one to whom his advice is likely dead-on. I think that statement is fair and objective.
Joe
The consensus is that the UFF system is flawed and it is easier, more effective, cheaper, and faster to do it yourself.
UFF confuses people and uses a very difficult method of pre-payment that does not perform as well as doing it yourself.
First off, I have seen the program and am a licensed mortgage broker and this is how I percieve the software to work. The software is nothing more than a tool to track your mortgage if/when you include extra payments towards your existing mortgage principal. At certain times, by using money in a line of credit, you are going to pay additional monies to principal from the line of credit. The line of credit balance is figured on the average daily balance and you only pay on what you have borrowed. While you are paying money out of the line of credit you are also depositing money into the account in the form of your paycheck thus keeping the balance relatively small. Can you does this on your own? Yes you can. However, the question comes up, “then why don’t you?”. I personally do not have a problem with UFF. If a person would like a tool to help them become debt free then so be it. I have clients ask me all the time about this product and all I say is do your homework. Check out all the different programs availible to you and make an educated decision based on facts. I have had the numbers run on me and I have the potential to save over $100,000 on my mortgage. It is an interesting concept that may or may not work dependent upon your unique situation. You can do this by yourself without the $3500 fee but it takes time. I am going to leave you with this analogy: I could purchase a map of my state for $3.95 or I could have a navigational system included in my car to the tune of $1500. Which one makes more sense?
Your comparison isn’t valid. It actually takes NO time to do what this program does. All you have to do is pay extra on your mortgage. If you have money, pay it.
Or you can waste $3,500 for a computer to tell you that you have money and you should pay it on your mortgage.
It’s useless software.
I am a financial advisor and was approached by someone with the UFF idea. Being open minded I went to a meeting and I left more confused about mortgages than I arrived. I agreed for the agent to “run” some numbers for me. The main phrase that was stressed in the meeting was “your monthly outlay towards your mortgage WILL NOT increase”.
Here is my situation personally:
I financed $209,000 on 7/06. I send $300 extra a month to my principal which as of 8/08 I owe $198,300. I gave her the number of $198,300 with my income numbers. Acccording to her calulations the software said that I would have my mortgage paid off in 3.3 years. So I did some simple math:
$198,300 divided by 3.3 years means I would have to send $5,084.61monthly and this is WITHOUT any interest added in!!!!!!
All I could remember was “your monthly outlay towards your mortgage WILL NOT increase”. $5,084.61 is a little more than $1,768.00 I send monthly (includes the extra $300 towards principal)!
What am I missing? Simple math just says it can’t happen. I’ll stick with my plan and write a check to my mortgage company for $3,500!!!!
Agree or Disagree with above comment?
Well of course I agree. The UFF “agents” are lying when they say that a mortgage can be paid off quickly with no change to your lifestyle or payments. That’s simply not true. The only way to pay off a mortgage early is to pay more than your monthly payment. They’re preying on consumers who really don’t understand the math.
I understand where wurdy is coming up with the analogy, but I don’t think it is an accurate measure of the disparity. If you are going somewhere that requires 3-4 turns at well marked intersections, you can probably find your way without even buying the map, let alone paying for the $1,500 ( or in this case $3,500) navigation system. What UFF is selling is that there system of complicated algoriths will calculate which lane you should be in, what time of day you will have the least traffic and what type of car will give you the best gas mileage, resulting in a nominal difference (if any) in actually reaching your final destination.
I have not seen any evidence (despite many requests!) to indicate that there is a significant difference in MMA versus a simple pre-payment schedule.
Anyone want to bed that wurdy is an agent? Ive seen agents use this gps analogy before. A better analogy is this: why pay $50 for a rotten apple(UFF) when you can buy a dozen fresh ones for $5.
Troy,
I have yet to see an argument against your simple math example either! I have actually seen a post from a UFF agent, praising this program because with it, his/her parents were only going to end up having to pay $58K to be free and clear of the $138K balance on their mortgage!?!
It’s a ridiculous argument…it’s not possible, but I have no doubt that they believed it! As I’ve said before, according to their business model, $175 and a willingness to avoid logic is all that is required to advise people on their most expensive asset!
As you know, pyramid schemes allow any and all willing to sell the product. Just look at the woman who called the Dave Ramsey Show and spouted out that homeowners pay 580% interest in the first year of a mortgage. This woman obviously had no data to support her protest, but because this is what she learned at a UFF cult meeting, she believed and taught it to her “clients”.
This reminds me of Natism, though no foundation for their racism, they believe anything that they are told, without doing any research or thinking on their own.
Again, I am not an agent for united first and am only a licensed mortgage broker who is slightly familiar with the software and have an insight as to how it works.
Tony – if you think I am a representative for United so be it. The fact that I said the software may be beneficial to some people is not an endorsement just a fact. If you have financial discipline you can achieve similiar results on your own. I used the navigation system as an analogy simply because it is about getting from point a (living with debt) to point b (living without debt). If it works for you great.
I use software in my business to track income and expenses which I could do on my own at no expense but for convenience I paid for software. So I guess I am a fool.
Finally, United First or other mortgage acceleration programs are not the magic bullet. You are not using other peoples money to pay your mortgage. You are using your own money left over from disretionary income and monies from a line of credit at a reduced rate to pay down your mortgage. The software is a financial tool to assist those that would like the convenience for paying for such services just as I use Quicken.
It appears that some of you take offense of those who want to pay for the software. There is no arm twisting and lenders are not making united first software a mandatory part of their loan programs. I also do not begrudge those that sell the software. As a mortgage broker I get hit up about three times a week by those that want to show me their software to show my clients. As with loans, it sure is good to have options and different mortgages from which to choose. I advise all my clients the positive effects bi-weekly, adding 1/12 of a payment every month and yes home acceleration programs may have on their short and long term financial situation.
Finally, some of you are painting a very fine picture using a broad brush and missing the fact that any thing you do to get out of debt whether it be any of the above mentioned solutions is a step in the right direction.
I think you’re missing the point that $3,500 is too high a price to pay for this so-called help. It’s being sold with a whole lot of lies, to people who don’t understand what they’re getting. Heck, even a “credit expert” that I know was conned into believing something magical is happening with this software.
If this was something being sold for $150, I’d say GO AHEAD and try it. But $3,500 is an obscene price for something that doesn’t offer anything above what a person could get with a cheap program like Quicken.
Oh sure, the company touts the “big algorithm” and makes it sound like this is something complex no person could ever do with a brain and a calculator or a simple software program.
BUT YOU CAN DO IT FOR FREE.
Want to pay off the mortgage faster?
Extra money –> pay it to the mortgage
Want to pay off mortgage even faster?
Do a budget –> reduce expenses –> pay even more to mortgage
All that, and I didn’t charge you a penny. Those of you who believe that this company is really selling people something that will help them are fools. This software doesn’t create financial discipline. But it does put people $3,500 (plus interest) further in the hole than they were before they started.
By the way, have you checked out my FREE post about how to save $20,000 on your mortgage? And did I mention that the advice I offered there is FREE?
Wurdy,
The problem is that if UFF agents were honest, nobody would buy the product. People that do buy the software believe that the software saves them hundreds of thousands of dollars, thus justifying the $3500. Because these people would get better results by doing it themselves, UFF is a scam.
Wurdy,
I spent about 15 years in the mortgage business, myself and had similar advice for people who asked me about bi-weekly payments and pre-pay programs. It is easy enough to do on your own, but if you don’t have the discipline, then maybe it’s worth it for you. More often than not, when I explained to them how to do it on their own they did.
I think the big difference is that (a) this is far more expensive than any other program I ever came accross and (b) it is being sold deceptively. Even when people asked you about it, you told them that there were other options and to do their homework…nothing wrong with that. The problem is that many of these agents ARE selling this as a magic bullet. They complicate the simple math with smoke and mirrors (“brilliant algoriths”) in an effort to convince people that there is no way they could do this on their own.
Speaking to Tony’s point, if UFF agents were honest and people still wanted to buy it, then I would agree with you. I highly doubt that would be the case, but until they take that approach, we’ll never know. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Perhaps UFF should screen their agents better. The UFF agents/supporters on this site need to learn how to spell. Good grief. UFF is a mega-SCAM. I know you want to believe it’s true but your statements make me think you’re trying to convince yourself more than anyone else. Dave Ramsey is a God send. His principles come straight from the bible. Our world today is in such disarray because more and more people think they’re smarter than God. Remove the bible from our schools = more and more school shootings and atrocities. Remove the bible from our courts = People like O.J. walk the streets a free man. Remove the bible from our homes = more and more divorce. Remove the bible from finance = DEBT!
God bless you Dave!
Ramsey fan said:
“Perhaps UFF should screen their agents better. The UFF agents/supporters on this site need to learn how to spell.”
Pyramid schemes, including UFF, take any and all willing victims. From the agents I have seen, if UFF required knowledge in finances that would cut their sales force to almost nil.
Ramsey_Fan,
The bible is no more an authority on morality than UFF agents are authorities on finance. Your correlations don’t exist.
I seem to agree with Dave Ramsey on at least two financial principles. I am against debt, and I feel many people should not hold credit cards until they can use them wisely. I am not aware of his religion, and I don’t really care, but God is not about to balance your chequebook for you.
Craig,
There are more references in the bible about how to manage finances than any other topic. God will balance your finances but it’s your responsibility to balance your check book. Embracing responsibility is a wonderful thing. People should try it more often. Obviously we disagree on religion. Your problem is you think you know more than God. I’ll pray for you.
I’m sure Dave is thrilled about your endorsement of two of his financial principles. Maybe he will read your book after it’s written and learn a few things. And maybe after that, he will help millions of people become debt free…oh, wait a minute, I think he’s already done that.
Anyway, UFF is a total SCAM. I don’t care who attaches their name to it. People should take the $3,500 and apply it directly to their debt. There is no magic button for this. You actually have to grow up and learn how to manage money.
Ramsey_Fan,
Any motivation a person needs to pay off debt is fine by me as long as it doesn’t involve expensive magic software.
I think Craig has a problem with people using faith instead of logic to solve their financial problems. I would argue that you can’t use only faith, you need to use some logic.
A person can pray every night that they win the lottery and nothing happens. If that person also takes logical steps to improve his/her financial situation they would be much better off.
God gives us choices. It’s up to us to apply logic and choose wisely. I agree with you WhackAShill. You absolutely have to use logic, too. I can pray that my sick child will get better but logic tells me that it won’t happen until I take him/her to a doctor.
For the record, I play the lottery, too…I just don’t bank on it. 🙂
Ramsey_Fan, I’m with you that UFF is a scam, and my main point is that the same faith that people have in God is being exploited to make them believe in the MMA. UFF are pushing the same buttons.
Faith is belief without evidence. I would argue that you shouldn’t use faith to solve a simple financial problem (like a mortgage) at all. The MMA is a black-box-type solution that you put your money into and it tells you what to do. You can have all the faith in the world that God exists or that your team will win – that’s fine. If you are resorting to faith with your mortgage, that’s a little scary.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you are not entitled to making up your own facts. Here is my bottom line: I will save $185,457 in interest by purchasing the United First Money Merge software that cost $3500 and yes I did include the software in the interest saved portion. Keep your spreadsheets as I have no use for them. Takes about 15 minute a month. Not interested in wheter or not it is MLM as I did my due diligence in researching the product. Talked to both my CPA and financial advisor. Both agreed the concept is valid and the prodcut will do as advertised. Whether I could do this on my own was not even a concern. My time is to precious. I could walk to work but I drive. Saves me time but cost me money. blah.blah.blah. I can assure you it is not a scam!
Craig – you hit a great point. The use of the tern ‘black box’ is very appropriate and due its nature, agents really don’t understand how it works either.
I continue to be ammused at how the agents will say that one can’t/won’t do this on their own. Can’t? Well, it’s not tough, not rocket science. Won’t? Well, why does paying $3500 make them any more likely to send all their money to their mortgage?
Joe
Robert – I regret to inform you that you could have saved $20k more without the software AND I could save you much time as well. You say you’ll spend 15 minutes a month with the MMA. Do it my way, and you’ll spend ONE MINUTE OR LESS each month. Quite a savings of your valuable time, isn’t it?
Robert is no doubt in complete denial of the facts that are presented in this board and several other sites.
He has no clue that the HELOC shuffle (or maybe he is using a credit card doh!) is hardly saving any money at all.
Instead it is the huge pre payments that the software is telling him to make that creates in his own words $185,457 savings.
Robert, this is something anyone can do for free, using almost no time at all each month, and in all cases doing it yourself saves several THOUSANDS more in interest.. Doing it youself does not require a spreadsheet or even a HELOC or credit card. Just quickly figure out what you can afford and send it to the mortgage.
You might want to have a HELOC for emergencies so that you can send the most amount of money from your paycheck towards your mortgage without worrying about an emergency.
It’s been my experience that people do not like to admit when they made a foolish error or in Roberts case, scammed.
Its like you paid $3500 for an abacus when you already had a calculator. Quite embarrassing indeed. I have found that people that actually go online to defend this software are agents themselves. I would not be surprised if Robert is on here trying to scam someone out of $3500.
Robert, you say the MMA costs you $3500 now, plus 15 minutes per month, and saves you $185,000.
You could have saved over $200,000 and spent less than 1 minute per month prepaying your mortgage yourself.
You paid more, will save less, and spend more time, with the MMA.
A minute? Does it take that long to write a check that has the balance of your monthly cash flow as added principal toward the monthly payment? Seems you have to write that check or set up that payment anyway.
The 15 claim from Robert is bogus. MMA suggests you consult it each time you spend any money. One agent proudly suggests that if “you see steak on sale, you should email or text message the software to see if this is a good time to make the purchase and how it will impact your budget.” This seems to me that the MMA software is a tax on one’s time measured in hours per month.
And I have never seen a positive from from a non-agent. Never.
Joe
Hey! I said one minute OR LESS. 🙂
Craig,
I never said to rely solely on faith to pay your mortgage. I’m not quite sure where you got that from. I simply said the bible offers answers to life’s questions. You still have to apply logic and common sense, especially to finances. My logic and common sense are based on how God wants us to do it. So is Dave Ramsey’s. God and Dave Ramsey…I like my team.
Here’s the thing about whether or not UFF is a scam. The process they sell works. No one is denying that. The scam is they are convincing people to pay $3500 for a process anyone can do basically for free. The biggest supporters are either UFF agents or people who paid $3500 and are trying to justify their lack of judgment.
As for Ernst & Young, the award was for Entrepreneur of the Year. This award is based on profit, not morality. UFF is selling $2 software for $3500. Anyone with a soul looks at that with disgust. E&Y looks at it and thinks BRILLIANT! E&Y may have good intentions but are severely misguided on this one.
I’m happy for you and your…um…team.
Would that be a 3-man team, or a 5-man team? You know, God being the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost and all. Who plays goal?
RF – The agents website make claims which are false. They claim savings from the HELOC shuffle beyond what is mathematically possible, the savings that HELOC use can provide is not enough to even pay for the program. They claim in bold font that one simply cannot do this on one’s own. Also not true. They claim that significant savings comes from the precise timing of fund transfers. Tinkering with a spreadsheet I can show that the difference between an extra $1000/mo vs $3000 per quarter is insignificant. One agent’s site claims that with zero extra income, one can cut 2 years off their mortgage just by HELOC and CC use. More lies.
It’s easy to discover one site after the next selling this product and sift through the claims they make that simply aren’t true. Not sure how else you define ‘scam’.
Joe
Good point, Joe. I guess the scam goes a lot deeper than I gave them credit for.
Craig, I love you brother. I will continue to pray for you. I wish you well.
While this is only my second post to this blog the disinformation provided by a few of you is ridiculous. First and foremost, in my experience, the United First agent never said that I could not do this on my own. In fact, I was doing some form of this own my own with results less than desirable. You also mention that, your results doing it your way, is better. You are basing your opinion on assumptions and not the facts of my particular situation of which you have no idea. The bottom line is that you are being intellectually dishonest. I did my due diligence and spoke with both a CPA and my financial planner both of which agreed that the money merge program is a valid concept. Furthermore, I checked with the Better Business Bureau and the states Attorney General in my state and United First has an unblemished record and no “scam” claims as you suggest. I use the system as a tool I implement to pay down my mortgage in an accelerated fashion in order to be debt free. There are numerous stategies one could implement, CMG, Equity Genie, extra payments etc…to pay off you mortgage and I choose the money merge account and am 100% satisfied with the program, the software and the support.
This will be the last time I post here due to the fact that I suspect the detractors of this particular program have a hidden agenda. This blog drives traffic to various websites and can be utilized for the purposes of SEO and keeps the blog near the top of the search results in google when you type money merge account in order to find unbiased, objective opinions which the internet in general and this blog in particular is not a good source for anyway.
The FACTS of my situation are that I will pay off my mortgage and save six figures in interest payments on my mortgage. Not bad for a $3500 program. Whether it works for you is dependent upon your situation. Don’t believe the so called “experts” here. They don’t know the facts of your situation and are basing there “expert” advise on assumptions and you know the saying when one assumes.
Robert – I’m sorry that you’re still confused about how the Money Merge program works. The FACT is that the program works simply based upon PREPAYMENT OF YOUR MORTGAGE. You do not have to pay $3,500 to a company like UFF to be able to prepay your mortgage. You can do so, for free, and on your own. No matter WHAT your situation is, I can show you how to save more money than UFF will help you save. And I will offer to do it FOR FREE FOR YOU. Send me your UFF proposal and I will send back to you the simple (and did I mention free?) instructions to save more money than UFF will help you save.
I realize that to the average consumer, it might sound too easy. That’s because it is. UFF gets people to believe that the magic money shuffle is responsible for their savings, and no human can replicate (or do better than) it.
That’s a complete lie, and I’m willing to show you how and why. I know you won’t take me up on this offer, because by now, you have a vested interest in believing that UFF and the MMA are going to work. You would feel awfully silly if you believed you had thrown your $3,500 down the drain. Sadly, that’s exactly what you did.
Robert – I base my assumptions on math. I started with an open mind and asked how much the helloc shuffle could possibly gain. Well, in the most extreme case, it somehow takes your average monthly checking balance and creates a return of your mortgage rate on that ballance. So in the example offering a $5000 monthly flow, it would appear the extreme is $5000*6% = $300/yr. Now what the kind agents do is tell you that when you send that $5000 in on day one, that you’ve magically saved $23,000 in future interest, and knocked two years off your mortgage. That may be, but you still owe $5000, now at 8% (in their example).
If you feel better believing that you can’t do this on your own, fine. If having software direct you to handle your finances helps you sleep better, that’s great. And to be clear, I’ve run into honest agents who tell the truth, that some people are so innumerate, and undisciplined, that without the prompting of MMA, they’d do nothing. They agree with me that MMA does nothing that one can’t do on their own. And they are the exception. Most agents believe their own tales. Take Tracy or me up on the offer. Mine is a spreadsheet that shows the $23,000 clear as day. For that matter, it shows that $3500 paid on day 1 will save you $16,600 in interest, for a total savings of over $20K, and 18 months on the mortgage.
By the way, as far as ulterior motives go – my blog is of general interest, and, aside from some Amazon adds, I have nothing to sell. I’ve sent out the sheet to dozens of people, most of which write back to say thanks for saving me $3500. I tell them to donate $350 to their local shelter or house of worship. A 10% cut for good.
Joe
I was considering the MMA but after reading all this I think I’ll keep my 3500.00. I am about to refi to get a lower interest rate and am very interested in how to pay down early. I am interested in your spreadsheet if you are still sharing it.
thanks!
Cathy
Robert said: “The FACTS of my situation are that I will pay off my mortgage and save six figures in interest payments on my mortgage. Not bad for a $3500 program.”
You have a classic confusion of the UFF program. The UFF software does not save you anything, it costs you. Paying $3500 for something that you can easily do yourself using less time with better results is a waste of money.
Robert also said:
“Whether it works for you is dependent upon your situation. Don’t believe the so called “experts” here. They don’t know the facts of your situation and are basing there “expert” advise on assumptions and you know the saying when one assumes.”
I have been searching for ONE situation where the United First Financial software actually saves enough to cover the high fee, UFF agents have yet to post ONE.
Most of you sound like nerds who spend all of their time with spreadsheets, while most of us are busy professionals who simply like the convenience of the software, having an organized and current financial dashboard in a very easy to use format with a strategic payoff that only requires point and click with the mouse.
Most of us are not nerds, want to have a life and want to save thousands in interest. Yes, anyone can do this on their own, but this is very very easy to use. I like having everything in one place….it is worth $3500.
Funny, you don’t see much negative commentary from those who are customers like myself. I know friends and family on it and they are all collectively thrilled with it….doctors, nurse administrators, engineers, etc. Once they are set up, they love all that it has to offer.
Deborah – You spend more time with this silly software than you would with a spreadsheet. If your time is so valuable, then the do-it-yourself method is best. And it will save you more money.
Deborah, on behalf of any nerds who might be frequenting the board I thank you for the ad hominem attack. It so often does come down to name calling when logic fails. As Craig Repied to another confused agent “Anyone can beat the MMA in 10 seconds every month: income – expenses = prepayment.”
You see, MMA or any spreadsheet for that matter, adds no value, none. Either provides a tracking tool where one can obsessively go each night to figure out if they are a day closer to their mortgage payoff, but that’s it. A child will grow no faster for the fact that her parents stand her against the side of a door every night and measure her height. You’re a busy professional? I hope it’s in the arts or literature, because if it’s in the scientific field, you just failed mathematics, third grade math at that. I assure you there is no engineer with a BSxx who will find value in this product, and in my dictionary of logical fallacies, this one is called “Ad Verecundiam”, the citing of some authority to ‘prove’ the truth or merit of that which is false.
By the way, Deb, how many have you sold, you speak like an agent, not a happy user.
“Using the banks money” – We started out by taking out a loan called a mortgage, using the bank’s money. Now that it’s time to pay the loan back, we need to get the money from somewhere. Usually, it comes out of our paycheck. But MMA claims that if we use a HELOC, we are not using our money anymore, we are using the bank’s money. But, wait, we started all this by using the bank’s money to take out a mortgage and now we have to pay it back. So that means if we use the bank’s money by taking a loan out of the HELOC, we have to pay that back, too. So all we did was postpone having to pay the bank back by using the HELOC money to pay the mortgage. We still have to pay the HELOC back. Where is that money going to come from? Out of our paycheck. So why should we spend $3500 on MMA to play a money shell game with a HELOC?
“Interest cancellation” – MMA claims that by loading up the HELOC and running our paychecks through the HELOC, we reduce the balance so much that we save lots of money that way, and that alone is worth $3500. OK, so how much can we save? Well, let’s assume our mortgage rate is 6%. That means each month, we are charged 1/2% on our mortgage balance, the whole balance. But if we are using interest cancellation, the most that we can save is whatever our monthly salary is. So, if we bring home $5,000, the largest HELOC balance we can offset is $5,000. How much will that save? $5,000 times 1/2% is $25. That’s $25 per month or $300 per year. So MMA wants you to spend $3500 upfront to save $300 per year. Do you know how much interest you would save if you just put $3500 towards your 6% mortgage? OVER $4,000.
“Factorial math” – MMA claims no one except a computer can figure out the best possible way to pay all your bills and debts because of all the possible combinations. LIES. There is only one SIMPLE BEST way to pay off all your debts. You pay off the highest interest debt first and work your way down using a DEBT SNOWBALL. It only needs addition and subtraction.
Well, I’m coming in here a bit late, I want to thank whoever way up there that did the transcript of the Dave Ramsey show.
A couple of things I’ve noticed, and I’d like to comment on:
– First, thanks to JoeTaxpayer for the spreadsheet – I got a copy of that, and it’s nice. It’s also free. You can get it over here:
http://www.joetaxpayer.com/money-merge-account-links
– Second, I don’t think the MLM bashing is really necessary, nor does it lend credence to the rest of your comments. Likewise with the anti-religous references. It’s unnecessary alienation of people who would otherwise listen to the good advice you’re offering. There are a lot of reputable MLM companies and products, and a lot of good people working in them. Religion by itself is a great thing – but using it to deceive others is not. It’s like guns – guns don’t kill people, the bullets in them do. Don’t add noise to your message. If people ask you about MMA and UFirst, and the first thing you do is spout off about MLMs, then a lot of people are going to stop listening.
– Third, I also am looking for that ONE example of where an MMA will save someone money over a simple spreadsheet, like what JoeTaxpayer has offered for us. A lot of agents have passed through here – and NOBODY has the example?
– Fourth, every example with MMA that I’ve seen uses a HELOC – but what if (for whatever reason) you cannot get one? I know I’m splitting hairs here (because theoretically the HELOC adds nothing, so therefore its loss takes nothing away) but what is the agents’ response if you say, “Sorry, I can’t get a HELOC”?
– Fifth – does anybody have an example of an MMA analysis where it DOES NOT pay off the highest interest rate debt first? Mathematically, I would suspect that ALONE would totally mess up their claims of great savings. If MMA paid off a lower interest rate debt (let’s say it’s a credit card) first, then it would be mathematically easy to beat MMA with a simple spreadsheet.
I’ve never found a “reputable” MLM company. They all do the same thing: churn recruits by selling them false hope based on deceitful data.
Bill,
Can you give me an example of a reputable MLM?
I spent a hundred dollars on the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace Package about 5 years ago and spent 12 weeks in classes at our church – it was wonderful material and I could tell you the whole Financial Peace Program in 90 seconds and save everyone a 100 bucks and 12 weeks of their life. A few years later, to my own fault, I admit I did not follow Dave’s advice, I was further in debt. I saw the MMA, spent a couple of weeks checking it out and purchased it. All I can say is that I love the program and I am $30,000 closer to being out of debt and will be totally out of debt in 11 years, instead of 25 years. Now, you may say – you could do this on your own, I really don’t think so and maybe I’m not savvy enough, but no plan has actually worked for me except this one. Maybe I’m like the fat guy who hires a personal trainer to get in shape, can I do that on my own, I guess – eat less and exercise, but if a personal trainer brings success or a MMA brings me success, why bash it. I’d think Dave would be happy for anyone who is doing that he preaches – getting out of debt. He should champion U-First, if it’s working for people, be happy. Financial Peace did not work for me or for any other the other 30 people who attended for 12 weeks, none of them did the program, it had a 100% failure rate. I’m not bashing Dave, I blame us, but why beat up something that is working for so many people? That seems odd to me.
Paying down your debt requires a behavioral change for most. The program doesn’t cause the behavioral change, you do. No matter what program it is, you have to make the choice to change your behavior. You’re saying that it took $3500 flushed down the toilet for you to change your behavior. You could have changed your behavior for free. Seems like a waste of $3500 to me. And no, Dave does not approve of MMA for the very reasons cited in this article.
As of June 2010, UFF is all but out of business. They had their last round of lay offs at the home office just yesterday and are now down to about 8 people running both the client and agent support lines. Thats down from around 70 a year ago. All of their last ditch efforts to boost sales have failed and the next round of lay offs in a couple of months from now will be when the company closes. The MMA was a great product, but poor management, questionable business practices and just plain stupidity from the owners have got UFF to where it is today. As the company began to slide, and more and more of us were laid off, the owners continued to spend thousands of dollars on creature comforts for themselves around the office. It was sad to see. I felt like I worked for some Wall Street, big bank executives who lived in some fantasy land and refused to change their life style while all of the “little people” around them were being laid off, or having their hours cut, etc. I wouldn’t be surprised to be standing next to one of them in the line at the unemployment office soon.
Former UFF support – I’m sorry for your loss, but most of us here believed the product to be a scam and are glad if it’s gone.
I wish you well. If you dealt with customers, you likely have a marketable skill, and I hope you find work soon.
Joe
Former UFF support, I too am sorry to see you out of work. The goal of the “naysayers” has always been the protection of those who may not realize that the UFirst MMA was a scam. Unfortunately, you worked for scammers, and you never had a “great product” in the MMA. It was always a clunky and less-than-useless piece of software that could never live up to the marketing hype. In a nutshell, that’s why you’re out of work – it was never a legitimate product in the first place.
I hope you find meaningful employment in a non-MLM related industry soon.
Regards,
Craig
Wow…
guess I got the answers I was looking for. UFF is out of business. So very sorry to the former employee. Sincerely hope you have found something.
I, ashamedly, am one of the ones who got pulled in 2 years ago, thinking it was an amazing opportunity to pay off the mortgage early. What was not taken into consideration was that life changes, emergencies come up, income decreases and now we have Much more debt than we did before. Our line of credit is huge and we just need to get out of it. The crazy thing is that we now have a fair amount of $$ after All expenses are paid, but the credit line has not decreased. It is so frustrating and beyond sickening that this is the mess we are in. My husband and I are doing all we can to truly watch what we spend.
Hindsight is always 20/20, but man, this really sucks.
Maybe I’ll take up a side job as a Mary Kay consultant… (that was for Tracy 🙂 ). No, no more of that stuff for me…never again will I get involved in any sort of MLM.
Thank you for the site….this was what I was looking for.
“UFF is out of business.”
I knew it was coming, but this is the first I’ve heard of it.
Can someone confirm?
Nope, still in business and struggling towards a decent beta version of MMA 5.0 for the convention. Back to mandatory 45+ hrs per week for the developers.
Oh, well. Just a matter of time.
With the drop in active users and agents, the coming convention could be held in a classroom. I wonder if they will hire homeless people to fill a convention hall to make it appear more full? I wonder if the average homeless person would be more knowledgeable about mortgages than the average UFirst agent?
WRT “Back to mandatory 45+ hrs per week for the developers.”
That qualifies as “crunch time” for UFF? In case any further proof was needed about how half-assed the program is, here you go. Any code monkey I’ve ever known would sneer at that and ask if that was going to be booked against their vacation days. That’s the coding equivalent of a 5 hour marathon time.
[…] Please don’t waste your $3,500 on this useless software. […]
For anyone interested… the link to Dave’s response no longer works (it looks like daveramsey.com changed their content management system which broke all the links. :-/) You can find it here:
http://www.daveramsey.com/radio/highlights/?urlVars=2008/7/8/Head-to-head-with-Dave
(though this will probably break in a few years when they change content management systems again)